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Date:	11/4/99 2:25:08 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 4 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1308<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Border Guards <BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace) <BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
Re: My website and a request <BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re Al-Haj<BR>
OT: 2nd Amendment<BR>
Wanted: Rate Yourself as a Traveller Character<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
Re: Violent Outlet <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:16:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards <BR>
<BR>
> At 07:53 PM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >When you have a *reliable* indicator of whether a person is or isn't<BR>
> >telling the truth, the protection against self-incrimination takes on a<BR>
> >whole different character.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You are more likely to run into limitations on what sort of questions<BR>
> >can be asked under which circumstances.<BR>
> <BR>
> I can't remember who wrote this series of short stories (Niven maybe?) <BR>
> about an eclectic professor that helped the cops in some obscure <BR>
> investigation, but in that world they had a mind probe that could reliably <BR>
> tell whether someone was lying or not.  Police could compel it's use in a <BR>
> criminal investigation, but the law was that a person could only be <BR>
> subjected to it once in his lifetime (some sort of weird double jeopardy <BR>
> extension).<BR>
> <BR>
> The result was that criminals would line up to get arrested and probed for <BR>
> a minor crime, knowing that no matter what they did afterwards they'd be <BR>
> safe from the probe (and with the probe available, juries seldom convicted <BR>
> without probe evidence).  As a result, the police internal policy was to <BR>
> only use it if they were already certain the person was guilty...<BR>
<BR>
In H. Beam Piper's universe ('Little Fuzzy', 'Uller Uprising', et. al.), there was a machine called the veridicator, which was part of every police interrogation as well as being installed in every courtroom to determine the truth.  As long as the globe showed red, you were telling the truth *as you knew it*.  The instant it started turning blue, you were in deep kimchee...<BR>
<BR>
Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well.  In 'Little Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute him once, and the other guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that escapes me at the moment>, they shot the guy dead, *then* hung him'.  Interesting...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:49:10 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
<BR>
At 05:36 AM 11/4/99 -0800, will richards wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >I have that to but also in the same book....<BR>
>B3 Second ed, page 7 Hydrographic Percentage (2D-7+atmosphere, if size 0 <BR>
>then hydro of 0, if atmo 0,1,A+ then apply -4)<BR>
>and then on page 12 is the of the same book is the refrence you made.<BR>
><BR>
>Since page 7 is backed up by multiple other scources I'd go with that.<BR>
<BR>
I think you have it backwards. My book 3 ((c) 1977, doesn't say an edition)<BR>
has 2D-7+Size at both the textual explanation & the chart, and Book 6,<BR>
Scouts says 2D-7+Size at both locations and about satellites as well as<BR>
planets.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Add a completely new dimension to science fiction adventure with<BR>
Robots.<BR>
Rob Brady                               robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:19:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace) <BR>
<BR>
> >I read an article several months ago in that bastion of high-class<BR>
> >journalism, 'The National Post' (that's sarcasm for you non-Canadians<BR>
> >or for you Canadians who have the good sense to avoid the Post).<BR>
> <BR>
> I would advise avoiding it. Somewhat abrasive, not very absorbant, and the<BR>
> ink rubs off on your private bits.<BR>
<BR>
Is it at least as funny as 'Royal Canadian Air Farce' or 'This Hour Has 22 <BR>
Minutes'?<BR>
 <BR>
> At least, that's what I told the last few telemarketers who tried to get me<BR>
> to subscribe :-)<BR>
<BR>
You shoulda heard some of the comments I heard when I was selling the New York Daily News over the fone.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:27:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
<BR>
> >At 0:10 -0500 4/11/99,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <BR>
> ><jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > > and B-52s ended the Vietnam war.. The more research I do, the less<BR>
> > > impressed I am with the Air Farces of the world.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The problem with B52s during the war was, they carried old weapons, <BR>
> >not the new improved 'smart' weapons they keep touting these days. <BR>
> >At cruising altitude, you couldn't hit the ground hardly with those <BR>
> >old WW2 era bombs.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Which defy gravity? :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm sure you can hit the ground, it would be more a matter of where you hit it?<BR>
<BR>
Usually, not within 600 meters of their target, if launched from high altitude.  We got better results with some A6 drivers coming in at treetop level.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:30:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: My website and a request <BR>
<BR>
> Once again, I would like to thank everyone for their input and comments on my website. <BR>
> I confess I was unaware as to the numbers of people that are not using the current <BR>
> generation of browsers - but the emails I've gotten we're very informative.<BR>
> <BR>
> Feeling a bit out of my league, I spoke to a collegue (sp) of mine who is a <BR>
> professional web designer, and he offered me some insights. So I would like to ask all <BR>
> of you who have older browsers to try my site again ( <BR>
> www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller ) and let me know if you are able to use it, etc...<BR>
> <BR>
> For the record, I _believe_ that all you need now to few the site is the ability to <BR>
> view tables. I've attached alt tags to all images, so they should work fine (I believe).<BR>
> <BR>
> Let me know.<BR>
<BR>
Looks good to me with Netflake 4.51.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:39:25 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:07:32 -0500<BR>
> From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
> <BR>
> In the Traveller Law Level abstraction, a Low LL planet should have few<BR>
> things the police get involved or interested in, and therefore the police<BR>
> will not be involved unless it's serious (and probably very public)<BR>
> wrongdoing. If you're walking down main street, blazing away at <BR>
> innocents with your trusty laser rifle, the corrupt or non-corrupt nature<BR>
> of the local peace officers isn't as relevant, or will at least be very<BR>
> difficult to conceal.<BR>
> <BR>
> Compare this to a very high LL world where very minor and very private <BR>
> things can be criminalized. Once the offense is private and difficult to<BR>
> detect, the very existance of the crime can be a judgement call on the <BR>
> officer's part. Then we *do* get into situations where corruption is very <BR>
> relevant. <BR>
<BR>
Good points.  On the converse, though, a low LL world might not have<BR>
strongly enforced policies on how what cops exist operate.  In other<BR>
words, yes, they would certainly react in force to the madman with the<BR>
laser rifle on Main Street, but they might have more de facto or de jure<BR>
discretion on whether to respond to (say) a commercial burglary, or a<BR>
barroom brawl.  Under these circumstances, "justice for hire" could become<BR>
the norm; if you want the police to get involved in a "borderline" case,<BR>
you pay them, above or below the table.<BR>
<BR>
Aha!  I just realized how this works out.  At low LL, you pay the cops to<BR>
get involved.  At high LL, you pay them to leave you alone. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:39:48 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
<BR>
Hi all. I'm at home sick today, so I thought I'd play with GURPS Traveller's<BR>
starship construction sequence. I'm putting together a CA-15 Cruiser Armored<BR>
from FSotSI, and I've run into suprisingly few problems, but for the<BR>
following:<BR>
<BR>
1) Nuclear Dampers. I can't, for the life of me, find what a nuclear damper<BR>
is supposed to do in the starship combat system. The CA-15 has an Optimized<BR>
Damper, so I assume that's one module with 10-mile coverage. But what does<BR>
that translate to in the combat system?<BR>
<BR>
2) Spinal mounts. Oh, those spinal mounts. The CA-15 has a NPAW model T,<BR>
which is roughly twice the size of the NPAW listed in the book (3,000 spaces<BR>
v. 1500 or so), so I'm going to have to build one. I started by trying to<BR>
reverse-engineer the NPAWs in the book, but found that I couldn't get the<BR>
numbers to match! Oh, I get the stats all right, but I can't seem to make it<BR>
fit in the mass and space alotted. I come up with:<BR>
<BR>
   Weapon: 11853 tons mass, 2370 spaces (948 if you use cf/50<BR>
      for volume instead of cf/20 as per GUPRS Vehicles, pg. 42)<BR>
   Full Stablization: 115 tons mass, 237 spaces (95)<BR>
   Power Plant: 1898 tons mass, 152 spaces<BR>
   Energy Bank: 32 tons mass, 1 space<BR>
<BR>
For a total of: 13898 tons mass, 2760 spaces (1196).<BR>
<BR>
As far as I can tell, it requires no crew stations -- as a hull weapon, it's<BR>
fired from the bridge by the chief gunner or pilot (as per GT pg. 150). What<BR>
am I missing here?<BR>
<BR>
3) Armor. Why is total surface area the area of the hull plus the *total*<BR>
area of all the ships turrets and bays? I would think that, since the<BR>
turrets and bays are at least partially imbedded in the hull, they wouldn't<BR>
count as surface area. Bays especially, since they are now almost completely<BR>
*inside* the hull.<BR>
<BR>
That's all I can think of right now. I like the system overall.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, the GT CA-15 looks like it's only going to have a maneuver of 2Gs or<BR>
so. With an AV of 80 (DR 30,240), it's got a lot of armor.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:00:26 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
"Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well.  In 'Little Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute him once, and the other guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that escapes me at the moment>, they shot the guy dead, *then* hung him'.  Interesting...<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of the legal discussion in GURPS Technomancer.  Seems that my<BR>
adopted home state of Louisiana (in the Technomancer setting) sentences<BR>
some felons to "life plus ten years":  the convict serves life at hard<BR>
labor; when he/she/it dies, the corpse is reanimated for another ten<BR>
years hard labor.<BR>
<BR>
Now _that's_ a punitive legal measure!<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Try this for a deeply unpleasant sentence:  A day before a<BR>
convicted felon has finished serving his/her/its time in prison, put<BR>
said convict into cold sleep for a century or two.  Then thaw the<BR>
convict out, have him/her/it serve the last day of the sentence, and<BR>
then be released.  Temporal exile....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:58:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich writes:<BR>
> 1) Nuclear Dampers. I can't, for the life of me, find what a nuclear damper<BR>
> is supposed to do in the starship combat system. The CA-15 has an Optimized<BR>
> Damper, so I assume that's one module with 10-mile coverage. But what does<BR>
> that translate to in the combat system?<BR>
There are no nukes in the basic combat system.  For practical purposes, 10 mile radius means 'immune to conventional nuclear weapons'.<BR>
<BR>
>    Weapon: 11853 tons mass, 2370 spaces (948 if you use cf/50<BR>
>       for volume instead of cf/20 as per GUPRS Vehicles, pg. 42)<BR>
>    Full Stablization: 115 tons mass, 237 spaces (95)<BR>
>    Power Plant: 1898 tons mass, 152 spaces<BR>
Access Space, Long Term, 304 spaces.<BR>
>    Energy Bank: 32 tons mass, 1 space<BR>
> <BR>
> For a total of: 13898 tons mass, 2760 spaces (1196).<BR>
> 3) Armor. Why is total surface area the area of the hull plus the *total*<BR>
> area of all the ships turrets and bays? I would think that, since the<BR>
> turrets and bays are at least partially imbedded in the hull, they wouldn't<BR>
> count as surface area. Bays especially, since they are now almost<BR>
> completely *inside* the hull.<BR>
<BR>
This whole logic is fscked up.  Basically, if you use a volume of 10 spaces for a bay, it counts as external.  If you use a volume of 50 spaces for a bay, it is an internal hull mount.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:00:07 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Nov 99, at 9:07, Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark Urbin posted:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >As the nice man said in Spinal Tap, "Sometimes it's just handy to have a<BR>
> >solid piece of wood about."   Ok, so it's not a direct quote, but you get<BR>
> > the idea...<BR>
> <BR>
> Miyamoto Musashi would agree with you. <BR>
> <BR>
> However, the most common and easily accessible weapon in the universe is a<BR>
> rock. (Recommended by 9 out 10 Aslan in comfy shoes).<BR>
<BR>
What's more they come in a wide selection of sizes from little hand <BR>
sized ones to nice, big asteriod sized ones (suitable for canon wars :).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:03:14 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> This is what I meant.  And as far as I know about Win98, it still uses a<BR>
> 16-bit gdi.exe and user.exe.  What these do is seriously limit what you can<BR>
> run on your system.  If your gdi or user resources are low, but you have 128<BR>
> megs free, you still can't scan that photo or burn that CD without problems.<BR>
> You'll get messages like "Out of memory" and be wracking your brain trying<BR>
> to figure out what the hell is up with that.  The only way to reclaim user<BR>
> and gdi resources is to reboot the machine.  Memory defragmenters will not<BR>
> help.<BR>
<BR>
That's mostly caused by a failure to clean up file handles when<BR>
processes end, and it's been a problem with Windows all the way back<BR>
to version 1.0. MS could clean all that up, but for *some* reason (I<BR>
could be cynical here, but I won't) they won't.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, I've been pleasantly surprised with the stability of Win98 as<BR>
compared to Win95 on the two systems I have it installed on.  It's not<BR>
up to the level of OS/2 or Linux for stability, but it's not too bad.  <BR>
<BR>
I saw where MS announced that the Win2000 client will sell for $350<BR>
when it comes out next March.  The server was in the thousands, not<BR>
unexpected. I also so where they want to require a "client user fee"<BR>
for ever client that connects to a Win2000 server. That should<BR>
basically eliminate any non-MS clients from connecting to a Win server<BR>
as you'd end up paying twice.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav....you got me. <G><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:07:14 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I wouldn't be surprised, Gates has being selling his shares in the OS arm of<BR>
> Microsoft to increase his holdings in the Applications arm according to<BR>
> reports in Computerworld<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but that would be hard to do. At this point, the OS and Apps<BR>
arms of MS are the same Corp, with the same stock.  Gates may be<BR>
selling some of his stock in MS to raise money for other purposes,<BR>
though.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'd *love* for the court case to result in a break of MS<BR>
into separate OS and Apps companies with separate stock issues.  I<BR>
doubt I'll live to see that! <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:06:19 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
<BR>
> This whole logic is fscked up.  Basically, if you use a volume of 10<BR>
spaces for a bay, it counts as external.  If you use a volume of 50 spaces<BR>
for a bay, it is an internal hull mount.<BR>
<BR>
Well, yeah, that's what I mean. According to GT errata, the bays in the book<BR>
should take up 50 spaces *inside* the hull. Yet it says on GT pg. 152 (no<BR>
errata) that "Surface area: ... number shown in the "area" column on the<BR>
Hull Table (p. 151) plus the surface area of all turrets and bays. ... Each<BR>
bay has an area of 6,500."<BR>
<BR>
This makes no sense at all to me.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:13:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > However, the most common and easily accessible weapon in the universe is a<BR>
> > rock. (Recommended by 9 out 10 Aslan in comfy shoes).<BR>
> <BR>
> What's more they come in a wide selection of sizes from little hand <BR>
> sized ones to nice, big asteriod sized ones (suitable for canon wars :).<BR>
> <BR>
And they work really well when accelerated to near lightspeed (ducking<BR>
under desk)  <BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
(I know it's a Robin Williams quote-- but *I* wear comfortable shoes and<BR>
I'm not a lesbian!  "Hiroshi am I a lesbian?"  "Not the last time I<BR>
checked, should I check again?"  "Sure!")<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan	 				93!  Thou Art God <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:22:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
>Just so y'all know.. that's a 20 *meg* avi.<BR>
><BR>
>Request for all:  When posting url, please keep a line open above and below<BR>
>so Eudora doesn't grab extraneous material.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah I wondered why it took so long for me to download.  when I first looked<BR>
I thought it said 2 megs, but when I look on my hard drive its 20.  But I<BR>
think its worth the download, I never laughed so hard in my life..:)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:17:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> Well, yeah, that's what I mean. According to GT errata, the bays in the<BR>
> book should take up 50 spaces *inside* the hull. Yet it says on GT pg. 152<BR>
> (no errata) that "Surface area: ... number shown in the "area" column on the<BR>
> Hull Table (p. 151) plus the surface area of all turrets and bays. ... Each<BR>
> bay has an area of 6,500."<BR>
> <BR>
> This makes no sense at all to me.<BR>
<BR>
It's due to a massive lack of clue on the part of the people who made that errata.  Hopefully GT:Starships will fix all that garbage.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 12:27:58 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, the US does have an 'organized militia'.  It's called the<BR>
>>National Guard, and is probably fairly close to what the founders wanted,<BR>
>>since they were more states-rights people than democrats per se, and the<BR>
>>national<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, the National Guard and Reserves didn't come into existence<BR>
>until over 100 years after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were<BR>
>written.  The Bill of Rights was tacked onto the Constitution years<BR>
>after the states rights were set out in the Constitution in order to<BR>
>preserve certain individual rights and limit the power of the federal<BR>
>government.<BR>
<BR>
sorry, but you're wrong on this. There were guard units by 1830; Abraham<BR>
Lincoln was elected captain of his guard unit well before he ran for the<BR>
senate or the presidency. The Guard and reserves system *AS WE KNOW IT<BR>
TODAY* dates to this century, but is one of several revisions to an already<BR>
existing system which, in theory (at least) grew out of the requirement of<BR>
every brittish yeoman to practice with the long bow.<BR>
<BR>
The constitution and bill of rights were both worked upon in the same<BR>
continuous period of 1785-1790 (maybe 95, don't have sources to hand); The<BR>
only way to get the constitution signed by all states was to provide for<BR>
the bill of rights. Which passed separately, and after much debate. Prior<BR>
to the Constitution, the United States  operated under the articles of<BR>
confederation, which provided for state militias, which could then be<BR>
called in to US service<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 12:33:18 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Al-Haj<BR>
<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Of course, the _real_ problem, for Muslims in the 3I (especially prior<BR>
to the Solomani Rim War), is the requirement for pilgrimage to Mecca<BR>
(Al-Haj).  Even after Terra falls to Imperial forces, travel to Mecca,<BR>
and the return trip home, could take half a lifetime or more for Muslims<BR>
in the Spinward Marches.  It wouldn't surprise me if Islamic scholars<BR>
established shrines throughout human space that would suffice to fulfill<BR>
the pilgrimage requirement, without having to travel for a decade or<BR>
more each way on one's pilgrimage.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
<BR>
is it gonna be 10 years each way? by J2, I've had PC's make it in a mere<BR>
1.5 years from the marches to terra... The haj looks more like 5 years for<BR>
the marchees, and about 2 for someone at capitol/core<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:37:43 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: OT: 2nd Amendment<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
The<BR>
only way to get the constitution signed by all states was to provide for<BR>
the bill of rights. Which passed separately, and after much debate. Prior<BR>
to the Constitution, the United States  operated under the articles of<BR>
confederation, which provided for state militias, which could then be<BR>
called in to US service<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
If the Second Amendment means "the States" (i.e., bearing of arms<BR>
limited to National Guard units) when it says "The People", this would<BR>
be afaik the only place in the Constitution & the Bill of Rights where the<BR>
one is used to mean the  other. There are several places where the two <BR>
words are used with clearly different meanings, often in the same clauses, <BR>
indicating that the framers had the obvious meanings of "The People" and <BR>
"The States" in mind.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: the 3I gets away from these semantical problems through the <BR>
simple expedient of letting nobles make up the rules as they go along. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:51:04 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Wanted: Rate Yourself as a Traveller Character<BR>
<BR>
I remember seeing a self-rating method to determine your own CT<BR>
characteristics at a game convention once. Does anyone have something<BR>
similar at their web pages or archives?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:08:02 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Brewer" <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
 > david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:<BR>
 ><BR>
 >> This is the part of the argument I have never understood. I mean,<BR>
 >> isn't it supposed to be "_organised_ militia"?? I mean, Switzerland<BR>
 >> has an organised militia, they have military weapons at home, and it<BR>
 >> seems to work rather well. This doesn't appear to be the case in the<BR>
 >> US.<BR>
 > Actually, the US does have an 'organized militia'. It's called the<BR>
 > National Guard, and is probably fairly close to what the founders<BR>
 > wanted, since they were more states-rights people than democrats per<BR>
 > se, and the national guard is under the control of individual states<BR>
 > (and does, incidentally, have military equipment). However, the<BR>
 > second amendment is subject to multiple different interpretations; in<BR>
 > particular, it is not obvious that the right to bear arms is<BR>
 > _limited_ to the creation of a 'well-ordered militia'.<BR>
<BR>
Besides the National Guard there are two levels of Militia in the United <BR>
States, the State Guard and the unorganized Militia.  The State Guard also <BR>
known as the State Military Reserve is for use only as a second line <BR>
militia in the state of origin and may not be used outside the state <BR>
without state permission.  It is equivalent to the British Home Guard of <BR>
WWII.  In most states it is at a cadre level at best in peace time (San <BR>
Diego, California's unit is the 41st Inf. Bn.).  The last time it was <BR>
called up in California was in WWII when it was used to patrol the coast <BR>
and guard bridges and defense plants using men exempted from federal <BR>
service for fitness, age, job, or completion of military obligation.  The <BR>
unorganized militia consists of all fit for service men between 18 and <BR>
50.  The last time this was called out was during the Civil War.  Short of <BR>
a total disaster it won't be called up active duty for the same reason that <BR>
County Sheriffs don't use their power of involuntary Posse duty, it would <BR>
be political suicide.  Very few men realize that they have a 8 year <BR>
military obligation in the United States.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Brewer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:22:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>>ObTrav: Orbital precision strikes are much less<BR>
>> manpower demanding than sending in the gropos.<BR>
><BR>
>and B-52s ended the Vietnam war.. The more research I<BR>
> do, the less impressed I am with the Air Farces of <BR>
> the world.<BR>
<BR>
I'm going in the same direction as Doug, but still<BR>
point out that it depends largely on what you're<BR>
bombing.  Aerial bombardment of civilian targets has<BR>
not hastened the end of any war, nor hindered the<BR>
target's ability to fight.  Aerial bombardment of<BR>
military targets can incapacitate them, allowing<BR>
ground forces to defeat them.  Two examples of the<BR>
latter phenomenon are the Gulf War and the invasion of<BR>
Europe by the Allies in 1944.  <BR>
<BR>
A possible counter-example to the first statement --<BR>
about the ineffectiveness of bombing civilian targets<BR>
- -- is the nuclear bombing of Japan in 1945.  Years of<BR>
fire- and explosive bombing of Japanese cities had not<BR>
hastened a surrender nor even much prevented the<BR>
Japanese from supplying their forces.  The nuclear<BR>
attacks, however, caused an immediate surrender.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:17:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"<BR>
<jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
<BR>
[Doug Berry:]<BR>
>> and B-52s ended the Vietnam war.. The more research<BR>
>> I do, the less impressed I am with the Air Farces<BR>
>>of the world.<BR>
<BR>
>The problem with B52s during the war was, they<BR>
> carried old weapons, not the new improved 'smart' <BR>
>weapons they keep touting these days.  At<BR>
>cruising altitude, you couldn't hit the ground hardly<BR>
<BR>
>with those old WW2 era bombs<BR>
<BR>
Kevin, I think you've fallen victim to good marketing.<BR>
 The vast majority of bombs dropped during the Gulf<BR>
War were deadfall ordnance.  They just didn't put<BR>
those on TV every night.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:35:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet <BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>And the perils of speaking the "same language" <BR>
>strikes again!<BR>
<BR>
Perils strike, so that subject and verb agree.<BR>
<BR>
I think that it was Churchill who lamented that the<BR>
English and Americans are "one people separated by a<BR>
common language," but, as you observed, it can happen<BR>
in any language.  One of my favorites is that in<BR>
Finnish laakari means doctor, but in Estonian in means<BR>
gynecologist.  There are no doubt all sorts of<BR>
problems like this throughout known space.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1308<BR>
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